Tuesday, March 22, 2011
What are my chances, Doctor?: A narrative look at desire for medical prediction and probabilities
Figuring out how much any patient or family member wants to know about the future chances of cure, disability or death is a delicate dance. Lyle blogged about prognosis disclosure earlier this week and we have covered some of the research articles here before. But in analyzing the research it is always good to have a narrative to help humanize the story. The NYT Well Blog is following Dr. Peter Bach, a cancer researcher, as he navigates the medical system with his wife who was recently diagnosed with breast cancer. The series can be found under the title "The Doctor's Wife." This week he writes a great piece about his frustration in getting probability and prediction information from his wife's cancer doctor.I'll discuss a few quotes from the piece:
"He said we should realize that it didn’t matter. It would either happen or it wouldn’t. I was stunned."Often as a palliative care doctor I have seen patients and families who are similarly stunned that they have not heard any information about probability of improvement or decline and what to expect even in the broadest terms. Most people automatically bring up the essential caveat when asking the question about prognosis:
- "I know you are not God but..."
- "I know you don't have a crystal ball but..."
- "I know no one knows the exact answer but..."
- "I know things can change but..."
Another quote from Bach:
"Her oncologist, the one I had asked to see her when we found out Ruth had breast cancer, is the most quantitatively oriented and science-based doctor I know. He is one of the world’s authorities on breast cancer, has conducted many of the crucial studies of treatment and written some of the most important papers about it."
This is an interesting theme I had not fully considered before in my passion about prediction science. Medicine strives to analyze data to provide better care. We love research and data especially when it comes to diagnostics and therapeutics. (Despite the love of data we can later debate the lack of implementation of evidence-based medicine.)
Later Bach reflects on the ease of access to information online, which begs the question, "When prognostic information is requested but not provided, are doctors avoiding a professional responsibility?" And yes that is a rhetorical question.
As in previous posts about palliative issues in the mainstream media, I would encourage you to read the comments to this piece on the NYT website. (140 as of this publication) A especially cool feature is the Recommendations feature which shows you what messages resonate with the most people. For me this is basically a quick, messy but insightful way to get a summary viewpoint of the public (although with the inherent biases of NYT readership.)
Here are a few comments that standout (misspellings and all):
- But people with cancer deserve more than a "que sera sera" from Dr. Doris Day. They deserve to be treated as adults, given an answer to such a question, complete with caveats, and be able to ask follow-ups and have them answered.
- It' not a question of how it would affect choices. It's a question of not treating patients like adults.
- I guess it boils down to personal preference but I presonally would have found this oncologist's response unacceptable. A patient has every right to have an answer to the question that was presented. I understand the philosphoical approach but that is not what the patient was after.
- There is much wisdom in the doctor's response. We so often "need to know" but don't know what we would do with the answer if we did know. Concentrating on living our lives to the fullest each day is what is most effective whether we have a cancer diagnosis or not. None of us knows how much time we have left; and concentrating on a number or probability keeps us more focused on what might go wrong than what is actually right at this very moment.
- I think your oncologist is very wise. He has probably seen so many people who thought they were on the "good" side of the statistics go to the low side and wonder, "Why me? How could I be in the 2%? I did everything right. I don't deserve this."
I see that all the time in hospice. Patients and families wondering what happened. Why them. Beating theselves up thinking somehow they did something wrong, that something was missed. That they should have done this or that or perhaps their MD missed something. It is painful to see their anguish. - As a breast cancer survivor with a complex case, I have come to learn that every case is unique, so I think that the doctor's advise was very sage.
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5 Responses to “What are my chances, Doctor?: A narrative look at desire for medical prediction and probabilities”
March 23, 2011
I've read Dr. Bach's blogs, and I like your distillation and expansion of his post. As a nurse on a medical surgical unit in a community hospital, where we also treat oncology patients, often if the doctor can't answer the patient's question of life expectancy, the patient or family will ask it again, of any nurse they have that seems to care at least a little bit for them. And I will do my best to give them my thoughts, but do doctors really want to leave this in my hands? There is so much I don't know about the details of their disease and treatment, even though I am an oncology certified nurse. We're all human in this...and understandably trying to predict a patient's life span can be excruciatingly painful for the one delivering the message. But we only get this one chance, in this patient's one life, to deliver the message as well as we can.
March 23, 2011
Paula, Thanks for your comment. i have learned a lot about communicating prognosis and even formulating prognosis from many of the hospice nurses I worked with early in my training. Formulating or communicating a prognosis was not something emphasized in my medical training as an Internist (I know surprising isn't it.)
It was only until I brought up prognostication in an ICU late one night while chatting with the nurses and house staff on call, that the nurses let me in on the secret that they get asked ALL THE TIME from families, especially when the doctors hedged, were vague or avoided the question altogether.
That really opened up my eyes that we were kind of letting people down in answering their questions to the best of our ability, even if that ability is limited by the difficulty in predicting the future in complex systems.
March 23, 2011
Also noted that GeriPal's Sei Lee commented on Dr. Bach's blog post.
March 23, 2011
You are very right in saying "the nurses get asked all the time especially when the doctors hedged"... and since we're there with them for at least 8 hours, there's not much opportunity for hedging. Best to get them talking about it and help where I can, otherwise I'm in for a very uncomfortable shift for both of us.
March 27, 2011
Also noted that GeriPal's Sei Lee commented on Dr. Bach's blog post.
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